Please read as much of you can of Books I and II of Herodotus' Persian War. Concentrate especially on Sections 1-14 of Book I and Sections 10-27, 123-131, 160, and 174 of Book II.Suppose that, instead of looking for a poet, Zeus and Dionysius were trying to find a great historian to bring back with them to Olympus. Cite a line or two from Herodotus showing why he might be a good candidate for the spot, and explain how this line/these lines show Herodotus' strengths as a historian. If you're not impressed with Herodotus, cite a line or two that shows why he ought to be left in Hades.
Annie Merkel
ReplyDeleteFirst, I don't know if I am reading what is assigned, so if this is confusing that may be why. But Herodotus provides so much information about the history of the Greeks and Egyptians and Persians that it proves he is a historian. On page 107 he states, "The course of the Nile is, then, known not only where it traverses Egypt but as much further southward as one can travel by land or water in four months; for calculation will show that that is the time it takes to go from Elephantine to the Deserters." I don't know how exact this statement is, however it is generally correct that the Nile is an extremely long river.
I thought the story of solon which starts near page 14 was a good example of story telling mixed with history I really liked the line "many very rich men have been unfortunate, and may with a modest competence have had good luck ". He tells us what happened in the past but still manages to make it interesting and have good moral points put in there as well.
ReplyDeleteBrian Johnson
ReplyDeleteThere are several lines in the first few pages of the book that demonstrate Herodtus' strengths as a historian:
"Amongst these was the king's daughter, whom Greek and Persian writers agree in calling Io..."
and
"As to Io, the Phoenicians do not accept the Persians' account..."
These two passages (and several others)demonstrate that Herodotus was well read, familiar with a variety of sources, and that he was open to a variey of viewpoints. These are necessary traits for any historian to have.
David Ellsworth
ReplyDeleteRight from the start it is clear that Herodotus would be an excellent contender for Zeus' needs. As was mentioned before he did have access to many sources, but one very important thing to note about him is that he was aware that some sources may be biased. The first 14 sections of book one show multiple times where he mentioned varrying accounts and makes observations as to which ones are biased and way they might be. He does a good job of not taking sides on the story of the Greek and Persian conflict instead pointing out that both sides were acting stupid. These are very good atributes for a historian to have.
Terry Kenny
ReplyDelete"....I keep to the general plan of this book, which is to record the traditions of the various nations just as I heard them related to me." Herodotus
Poor Herodotus. I would leave him in Hades. From a humor stand point, some of these stories are hillarious. Solon left Athens after he introduced his law cod because he did not want to change them. Did Solon know his laws were junky and the people would not like them or did he think that the nature of the people would rebel against any law? I found this very amusing.
Okay. Down to buisness. While Herodotus may have considered himself to be a historian there are serious flaws in how he did this. He related what he had been told about cultures without having experienced these cultures himself. That is a huge flaw. Say I were to write the history of the culture of South Korea and one of the South Korean students at NSU told me that only the truly elite in South Korea wore sand paper pants. My history would be flawed but in my mind it would be correct because someone from South Korea told me it was so. I may change my mind after I finish the whole book but right now I would say Herodotus was more a keeper of folk tales rather then a true historian
Sam Merkel
ReplyDeleteI thought that just on the very first page it showed how good of a historian Herodotus was. When he continues to say "Amongst these was the kin's daughter, whom Greek and Persian writers agree in calling Io, daughter of Inachus." Herodotus also gives two sides to a story, one from the Persians and another side of the story is told by the Greeks. By doing that I think that it shows that Herodotus has the informations to show that there was two sides to a story.
I thought that he would have made a good historian because he gave credit to other people and told great stories like the one with Solon and how wise he was. He also would be good because he also talked about the different types of animals and gave good descriptions of them on pages 121 to 124
ReplyDeletejon evenson
"In their dress and mode of living the Massagetae resemble the Scythians. They fight both on horseback and on foot, neither method is strange to them: they use bows and lances, but their favourite weapon is the battle-axe. Their arms are all either of gold or brass."
ReplyDeleteI thought this was a particularly good historical few lines from the end of book one. Its not necessarily the most interesting story like most of the book, but it is a great detailed account of the way these people faught in battle, and the types of weapons they used. This is a great example of being a historian because it shows an understanding that future generations will read this, and this gives a more complete picture of these people.
Zach Anderson
By just looking at the first page it is easy to see why Herodotus is a good historian. By looking at the second paragraph, it is easy to see that he goes in depth with what he is saying. He even says what kind of goods the traders are for on their trading voyages. So, by just looking at how in depth he gets in this paragraph, it is easy to see what he is considered to be a great historian and why Zeus and Dionysius would take him if they had to choose a historian to take to Olympus.
ReplyDeleteKirsten Saunders
ReplyDeleteInitially, I chose the same passage as Zach, in which Herodotus details and compares the Massagetae to the Scythians. This is important, because for historians there is value in comparing cultures, specifically military culture. The most important ideas in this passage belong in the military commentary and description of weapons. It is important to note the evolutionary stages in military artifacts, which could validate an argument for Herodotus' legimate authority.
Laura McCowan
ReplyDelete"...so that human achievements may not become forgotten in time..."
the very first two lines show him to be great. The whole point of history, is so that no one can forget what has happened, and to look into the future. In general the first few pages continue to show why he was good at what he did. Throughout he provides insight not only for the Greeks, but for everyone, a mark of a true historian. He seems to realize that everything is connected.
Peter Ryman
ReplyDeletehmmm...Well. I suppose that this line would show Herodotus's qualifications,
"There are many accounts of Cyrus' death; I have given one which I think most plausible (Pg. 94)."
As a historian, I think you would want somebody who is trying to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth; so that line seems to show his truthfulness a little.
Perhaps another quality of Herodotus is that he is long-winded and incessant about his description of meaningless and superfluous things. A good historian likes to ramble on about countless branches of information, meaningless and significant to various subjects.
.......!! Holy Smokes! He goes on and on and on!
I don't know what to think of him though. Interesting may be.
I think the reason that Herodotus is such a good historian is because while reciting his history he goes into incredible detail with many of his subjects. A few lines that show this are on page 125 when he describes the Egyptians, "The Egyptians keep to their native customs and never adopt any from abroad. Many of these customs are interesting especially, perhaps, the 'Linus' song. This person, under different names, is celebrated in song not only in Egypt but in Phoenicia, Cyprus, and other places and appears to be the person whom the Greeks celebrate as Linus..."
ReplyDeleteRuth Wilson
ReplyDeleteWell, all these things that have been said are true- Herodotus does make a great historian. He knows the strenghts and the weaknesses of his sources, he tells the sorrounding stories as to just why something has taken place, ect. He is also a bad historian for the same reasons. E.g.; Herodotus tells the tale of that guy who had "unusual sex" with his wife. That is an interesting fact, but where did it come from? Is it hearsay? Third party witness? Did it come dirrectly from Megaclese's wife? We arent given to know.
I must, however, side with those sending him to Olympus for this reason alone; he never says that he believes the Oracles are the voice of the gods. Every time they are mantioned (or as far as I've gotten-- maybe that changes later!), Herodotus always drives home that these Oracles are the driving force of those sending to them. The gods were obviously, and somewhat redundantly, the center of this war and the center of these people's lives. Herodotus simply puts all these things on paper. Or on tablets. On scrolls? whatever...
I agree that the first few pages are all that's needed for me to feel Herodotus is indeed a great historian. He realizes where bias may lie and accounts accordingly. He also gives information that some historians may not find to be critical information, but I actually enjoy reading. Such as the stories in the beginning about the female abductions and whether or not they went under their own will, as well as who may or may not have been at fault over the fall of Troy. The way he writes it it may seem not quite like history but things like that I believe are essential to understanding what the times were like back then since no one to this day really knows what an individuals day to day life or even a countries day to day life was like. Herodotus gets the thumbs up from me.
ReplyDeletei agree that he is a good historian mostly beocsue i think he seems to be a good story teller. he gives you the facts but as you read its not like reading a high school text book its like reading a good book, i find it dry in some parts but when hes telling the storys i explains them realy well, like the story of gyges sneekin a peek at the kings wife. that does lead me to wounder if he embeleshed parts of the storys but one can tell that the core of the true.
ReplyDelete-allison rademacher
I think Herodotus shows he is a good historian in this book. He lets us know where he gets his information and also identifies when two accounts differ. On the first page he tells how Io came to Egypt "according to the Persian account." But immediately after stating this he tells us that the Greeks have a different account of what happened, letting us know that there is some speculation as to how the events actually unfolded. I also think he is a good historian based on the fact that he shows the big picture of things. He tells us that Paris stole Helen because he had heard stories of wife-stealing in earlier years. Herodotus tells us of these instances and how nothing came out of them, so Paris believed he would be able to get away with it as well. However, this was not the case as he ended up with the Trojan War. Herodotus was also a very good story teller. He is able to give us all the facts needed, but in a way that makes the story very interesting and makes the reader want to continue reading.
ReplyDeleteJohn Rawerts
Page 5:
ReplyDelete"So much for what Persians and Phoenicians say; and I have no intention of passing judgment on its truth or falsity. I prefer to rely on my own knowledge, and to point out who it was in actual fact that first injured the Greeks; then I will proceed with my history, telling the story as I go along of small cities of men no less than of great. For most of those which were great once are small today; and those which used to be small were great in my own time. Knowing, therefore, that human prosperity never abides long in the same place, I shall pay attention to both alike."
Herodotus is aware of his audience and puts a lot of time into figuring out what it truth and false. He hopes to show the future what it is like, and writes to those who do not know the cultures or the peoples he is talking about instead of assuming you know the background of these peoples already.