Please finish reading the Iliad (Books XVIII-XXIV). The final pages are crucial to understanding the work as a whole, and there's not much here that can be skipped.Cite below a "key line," a line from the above chapters that you think particularly important to understanding the Iliad. Explain your choice.
In Book 18, Thetis speaks of her great son Achillies. I chose lines 64-74 because they basically summerize the Iliad as a whole.
ReplyDeleteAchillies a great and powerful man was taken over by rage only to fight the Trojans, kowing full well that it would be his doom. Achillies' rage fuels him and his ego.
Kelsey Leddy
In chapter 18 pg 477 the line " The moment the son of crooked Cronus allows me to seize some glory here...."
ReplyDeleteEven Achilles wanted glory, he debated it very much. Many of the people fighting wanted glory. It also points out the importance of the gods.
I was gonna use Kelsey's line, but she already, more or less for the same reason. She has a very good point.
Laura McCowan
Kirsten Saunders
ReplyDeleteIn Book 24, pg 590, "No doubt some mortal has suffered dearer loss than this,/he grieves, a brother born in the same womb, or even a son.../ he weeps, but then his tears are through./ The Fates have given mortal hearts that can endure." This is particularly important, because it gives something to humans that were not given to the Gods. Furthermore, it is important commentary on the nature of man and the suffering and enduring that clearly presents itself throught The Iliad. Additionally, rage, a common theme throughout the play helps procure the enduring human spirit. Understanding the pain and emotion in The Iliad is vital. The Iliad evokes such strong images, disregarding the triumph over tragedy would be a fault to not only Homer, but to the reader.
Annie Merkel
ReplyDeleteI think the very last line of the whole book is one of the most important. It states, "And so the Trojans buried Hector breaker of horses" (614). I think this is important because "The Iliad" is all about anger, rage, and grief. Basically, all of the fighting going on throughout the entire book has led to the death of Hector - which leaves the Trojans in grief.
Sam Merkel
ReplyDeleteI decided to go with a line from book 24. It explains how Achilles is grieving over the death of his friend Partoclus. It says "The memories flooded over him, live tears flowing, and now he'd lie on his side, now flat on his back, and now facedown again." I thought that was interesting because for me it always seemed that Achilles was actually suffereing. Even later in the book it mentions that Lord Apollo complains to the gods about Achilles, saying "But murderous Achilles you gods, you choose to help Achilles. A man without a shred of decency in his heart, and a temper that can not be bent or changed like a lion." The reason I thought that these lines were important was because it does show that Achilles actually does feel pain and it shows the reader what kind of reputation Achilles had.
A line that portrays The Iliad nicely is on page 605. "And overpowered by memory both men gave way to grief. Priam wept freely for man-killing Hector, throbbing, crouching before Achilles feet as Achilles wept himself, now for his father, now for Patroclus once again, and their sobbing rose and fell throughout the house". This line shows that even though two men can have an immense hatred and rage towards eachother, the thought of family can bring them together and halt their anger. This shows the beauty and power that emotion has among mortal men.
ReplyDeleteI picked a line from page 470 where achillies thetis comes to comfort him after he hears that patroclus is dead, "My child, why in tears? what sorry has touched your heart?... Zeus has accomplished everything you wanted. just as you raised your hands and prayed that day. all the sons of achea are pinned against the ships, and all for want of you- they suffer shattering losses"
ReplyDeletebasically he got what he wanted but at the death of his best friend, all because he kept that rage and anger inside his heart and couldn't forgive agamemnon for what he did and because he wanted vengence against him. This goes to show you can't let your anger and others actions get to you enough that make bad decisions.
Terry Kenny
ReplyDelete"Now my army's ruined, thanks to my own reckless pride...." Hector.
It appears to me that throughout the Iliad, Homer uses the pridefullness of man as a morality play. If Achilles hadn't allowed his pride to get in the way of his military responsibilities the loss of life on his side would have been far less. Hectors own pride, the belief that he could not be killed and that he had all the answers, led to his death. The whole war started because Paris made off with a woman. Pride seems to have started this war. In this story, pride lead to revenge, and a large number of people paid for it.
Peter Ryman
ReplyDeleteAmong the reasons Homer gives in trying to explain the human condition in the Iliad world (Is he trying to explain it in the real world too?), I thought one of the best themes that he used was how the gods willed it. Yeah yeah, Homer may try to give a few "moral" lessons if you will to the reader (which by the way were pretty dismal), but besides that, nothing exists apart from the gods will. I don't know which line to choose; their were multiple instances from each chapter in various forms. But any way, it follows that if some one dies, the gods willed it. If some one gets the victory, the gods willed it. It was Fate! For whatever action or emotion or reaction that happens, it's always from the will of the gods. To summarize the Iliad, one could say that it is a foolish, contradicting, and ludicrous work of literature, and should be made known as such. And it's this that you have to understand. The point of life was never obtained and the gods and humans all were flawed, in some way or another. Knowing this then, whatever lesson or moral you derive from the Iliad will be subject to that scrutiny.
I think that the basic moral of the story is that we can control our fate. The line when achiles debates over whether to go to war and die or not fight and live a long life is kind of a good example of that. He chooses that he would rather have glory in death rather than live in shame. The gods did intervene in story but all in all it was all up to the decisions of man that decided their own fate.
ReplyDeleteJon Evenson
Brian Johnson
ReplyDeleteThe line I chose was spoken by Menelaus: "When you fight a man against the will of the gods, a man they have sworn to honor-then look out, a heavy wave of ruin's about to overwhelm you."
I felt this line and scene was important because it illustrates the debate between satisfying your pride and doing the smart, rational thing; which seems to be a recurring theme throughout this book.
There are several instances where characters chose to do something foolish in order to satisfy their pride, and it often came back to haunt them. Instead of making smart choices they gave in to their anger.
My line is from the 24th book pg. 610. Its Priam talking to Achilles about the death of his son Hector.
ReplyDelete"Well nine days we should mourn him in our halls, on the tenth we's bury Hector, hold the public feast, on teh eleventh build the barrow high above his body - on the twelfth we'd fight again...if fight we must.
Even though his son Hector dies, King Priam still must hold back his grieving to keep his focus on fighting the war. He knows that they have lost a great person and fighter but they still have to ontinue if they want to win the war.
Erik Guthmiller
Ruth Wilson
ReplyDeleteSo, along with many, the death of Hektor, breaker (or tamer in my copy) of horses seems to sumerize the book as a whole. "...the men were quick to raise the death-mound, while in every quarter lookouts were posted to ensure against an Akhaian suprise attack. When they had finished...they returned to Ilion, where all sat down to banquet in his honor..." At the end of any given day, all these men had to look forword to was the death of another friend or hero and a banquet. I think this goes for human kind through out time-- in life, great people die, suddenly and tragicly. We arent given to know the reasons for these things. It may just be, as someone said, its all fate, the fate of the gods, or even Fate the god (goddesses? whatev...) I suppose one could take these stories to be people deciding what their fate is to be, but if thats true, why is it that when they take their fate into their own hands something terrible happens to them? Its not like the gods are much help here, either. They usually just add fule to the fire by choosing sides. Maybe it would be different to read it in the origional Greek, but this book only the beauty and glory of war. Its depressing, confusing and brutal to me. At least at the end of the day these guys got some good grub. Hooray for funeral food! Do you suppose there was fried chicken at all these? Thats what all the funerals I've ever been to had....
David Ellsworth
ReplyDeleteI felt the last chapter, 24, was significant because with the events in it, Achillies' attitude went through a change. experiencing much rage and sorrow over the death of his friend Achillies was taking his rage out on Hector's corpse. Zeus did tell him he had to accept the ransom from Hector's father to return the son and he resigned himself to this. However, when he met Hector's father, he was so moved by the man's love for his son, even going as far as to humble and debase himself before his son's killer, that his rage over his friend's death melted. He gave Hector back willingly and did all he could to spare the father the heartbreak of seeing his son before the body was prepared. Achillies even told Hector's father that they would hold back the attack long enough to mourn and properly burry the man. This shows Homer's insight into the human condition because only a man expressing the level of grief that Achillies himself felt was able to connect with him and move his angry heart to tears.
The story of the Iliad is about the rage of Achillies. With the ending of that rage because of his meeting with Hector's father, it was a natural place to conclude. It was the story of the destructive nature of anger and how it lead to the death of the great man Hector, most noble son of Troy.
Kevin Nakajima
ReplyDeleteI chose the two speeches from Achilles and Agamemnon in Book XIX. The gist of each speech is this. Achilles rallies the Achaeans for battle and says he and Agamemnon should forget their quarrel for the good of the Achaeans. Agamemnon then apologizes by first saying people should never interrupt each other, then he says the gods struck him mad when he took Briseis. This shows how the Iliad can be viewed bible. It shows what can happen when people aren't constantly fighting each other. It also gives us a view into some of the morals of that point in Grecian history. Plus, it closes off one of the most important plot points in the story.
Though he's a fine man, in this rage of his
ReplyDeletehe's harming senseless dust.
I chose this small line from book 24 because it reminds me of how this book began with Achilles rage. He is so angry with Hector that he will senselessly drag him around, and mourn for his friend. His rage is his downfall a weakness he cannot control, and he will take that rage to the point of being absolutely senseless, thus is the nature of man. Even a fine man can become an animal when his mind is no longer in his control.
Zach Anderson
in book 24, there is a line "...as Achilles wept himself, now for his father, now for Patroclus once again, and their sobbing rose and fell throughout the house
ReplyDeleteThen, when brilliant Achilles had had his fill of tears and the longing for it had left his mind and body, he rose from his seat, raised the old man by the hand and filled with pity now for his gray head and gray beard..."
i liked this section becosue the story was about achilies rage and here he starts to let go of it. he greves and lets it out of his system and even though he dostn forgive hector for killing patroclus he feels sorry for Priam. it shows achilies letting go of his anger and pride a little bit.
-allison rademacher
I chose Book 24 lines 786 - 789 where Achilles is assuring Priam that he will hold off all attacks on Troy until after a full burial rite for Hector.
ReplyDeleteThis obviously happened after Hector was killed fighting Achilles. I think it is important because even though the book may be about rage most of the time, these lines show that Achilles can also have some decency. It shows the other end of the spectrum of Achilles as he is talking to a father of a man he just recently killed.
In book 24 starting at line 39 the god Apollo makes a very honorable speech. He is persuading the gods to save Hector’s body from further being dragged by Achilles. This is a shining light for the gods. Apollo wants the body of Hector to be returned to his home so he can have a proper funeral. This is somewhat remarkable to me. It is also very strange that these mighty gods would have to debate about whether they can steal the body without Achilles or his mother knowing. Apollo persuades Zeus that Achilles must accept a ransom for the body. When the body is returned there is a great relief from the Trojans. It is a beautiful thing that they can burn their hero on the pyre.
ReplyDelete-Matt Peterson
The line I chose comes from page 557, where Hectors wife has just found out he has been killed. She says "Now you go down / to the House of Death, the dark depths of the earth, / and leave me here to waste away in grief"
ReplyDeleteI chose this line because so many people are lost in this book and it offers little in the way of consolation or reasoning for loss of these people.