Among his many works, Plutarch wrote an essay "On the Malignity (Malice) of Herodotus," a work in which he criticizes the father of history as a slanderer and a blasphemer, a man who dwells on the negative and omits the noble and the good. He admits that Herodotus is a great artist, but (he says) that only makes things worse.Please read as much as you can of Books 8 and 9 of Herodotus' history. Be sure to read Book 9, Sections 90-122 (pp. 590-603 in the new Penguin edition). Cite one story from this section *and* one story *from some other part* of Herodotus' Histories that either supports Plutarch's criticisms or shows that Herodotus includes more than just negatives.
Sam Merkel
ReplyDeleteThe story that I chose was the story of Euenius and when he fell asleep when he was suppose to be watching a heard of sheep and some wolves came and killed off a majority of the heard and while Euenius tries to hide the damage by finding more sheep before anyone would notice. The towns people did find out though and for punishment they cut out his eyes. The part that gets me is when the people realize that it really wasn't Euenius's fault, and to make it up to him they give him some land and a house. As if that is going to make up for the mistake of taking his eyes.
the story I liked which showed the good side of people was on page 526 adn 527, Astrides was ostrasized from athens and his rival was themistocles, but both of them were willing to look past an old rivlarly and their problems and combine their judgement on how to best beat the persians, shows that people can forget about their hate towards one another and work towards a common goal.
ReplyDeleteAnnie Merkel
ReplyDeleteOne part that kind of proves that Herodotus is not right in some of his writings is in section 95. On page 593 he stated, "I have also heard a different story, according to which Deiphonus was not Euenius' son at all, but merely assumed that name and got work in various parts of Greece on the strenth of it." He is admitting here that he really is relying on mere stories instead of factual truth.
I can't pick just one story to provide as an example that would show how Herodotus focuses on the negatives. For example, there is the story of the Egyptian thief, which seems to dwell on something negative. Yet it contains a positive ending - the thief getting the king's daughter for his genius. Another story is that of Euenius. Because he fell asleep on duty watching the sheep, and the sheep were eaten by wolves, he had his eyes cut out. That to me is not a good thing. However, Herodotus ends the story by saying that Euenius recieved reparations for them cutting out his eyes. I think that many of Herodotus's stories are negative, but usually have a positive (or close to a positive) ending.
Brian Johnson
ReplyDeleteI do not think Herodotus focuses exclusively on the negative.
One example of a noble action is found on pages 552-553 when the Athenians refuse to make peace with the Persians and betray Sparta. They knew they were facing heavy odds, but they decided to fight on because they believed in something more than themselves. That seems noble to me.
Another example is found in pages 599-600 when Masistes refuses to leave his wife and marry someone else, even though he knew that defying Xerxes was putting his life in danger.
Laura McCowan
ReplyDeleteThe part from the reading that shows his negativeness would have to be on page 569-570, the story of Hegesistratus. He gets arrested by the Spartans, breaks out, by cutting his foot off, then still gets arrested and killed by Spartans later. Telling us that he was killed didn't really seem to have much of a point. It was really there as a sad note.
The first story that I thought of which had a positive ending was the story of the Egyptian thieves. One is killed, and the other lives in fear. However, in the end the one who lives gets everything, power, riches (in theory), and the girl. A real positive note.
Terry Kenny
ReplyDeleteWhile Herodotus does spend a lot of time on acts of revenge, as Ruth pointed out in class, there is a lot of killing going on, there are moments nobility in his histories
There are two stories that I consider to be examples of good character or nobility. The story of the blinding of Euenius is an example of this. The Apollonians use deception to find out what Euenius would take as compensation for their having blinded him. The reaction of Euenius is what I consider noble while others may not. He becomes angry at the means used to find out what he would take for forgiveness. Most people would not have cared how they found out as long as they received the gifts.
Another example of good character or "nobility" is the story of Croesus and his adopted son. After Adrastus kills Atys in an accident Adrastus offers Croesus his life. But Croesus does not kill Adrastus. He instead says it was not your fault but the fault of some god. So Croesus forgave Adrastus instead of killin him out of a need for revenge. Which compared to the tone of most of the stories is a refreshing change.
Ruth Wilson
ReplyDeleteWell, I've been listening to Herodotus on an online archive, not reading the book. There were two halves to this specific book, I assumed vol. II would start where vol. I left off-- book five or something. so I scrolled down twards the bottom and chose one of the last entries. I was wrong, wrong! I didn't hear any of the stories my fellows seem to have read! However, I will answer the question posed, anyway:
I listened to a LOT of geography. This is neither positive nor negative- it just is. I also learned of Darius comitioning a floating bridge. This is something we still use today! I dont think this is negative. However, these happy things (or at least, not revenge and killing things) were as salt to the death and dismemberment dish that was served. Zomg, people. The traditions Herodotus records are kinda icky. People eating their dead kinsmen with slautered cattle, gilding the sculls of fallen enimies to use as cups, wearing tanned scalps as coats. ewies. I'm really hoping these things were stories made up to tease the foreigner asking to many questions.
There are two stories I found that are good examples of positives for the greeks, and show that the gods are on their side. They are also evidence that the greeks respect the gods. I do not know if Herodotus respects the gods because he does not really talk about his own beliefs too much. The first story is in book eight a tale which was told by Dicaeus, and it fortells of the destruction of Xerxes fleet if he moves towards Salamis. This is negative for the Persians, but it goes a long way to foreshadow the Greek victory. The second story I chose was in book 9 and its about the vengence the Spartans were to recieve for the death of Leonidas, and again this may seem negative toward the Persians, but it shows the Greeks that the oracles favor them, and that they will have vengence against the Persians for the death of a great king.
ReplyDeleteZach Anderson
The story i choose was the one with Xerces and Masistes. Xerces falls in love with Masistes wife. Xerces tries a few plans to get Masistes to leave his wife, but they all fail because Masistes loves his wife. So Realizing that Xerces wasn't going to get the girl he has mutalatied and had her tongue pulled out. Masistes tried to lead a revolt against Xerces but Xerces had an army sent out to kill Masistes and his sons.
ReplyDeleteI would say that Plutarch is semi correct in that all of his stories are pretty sad and depressing but if that is what happened you can't just write somthing else to just to make things seem like they are not as bad as they were. So i like that he is telling these stories truthfully rather than sugar coating them.
Sorry last blog was jon Evenson
ReplyDeleteThe first story I would like to comment on is the one with Euenius and how he let a bunch of the sheep get killed. I think this story shows how Plutarch was possibly right when talking about how Herodotus focuses on the negatives. Not only does he mention that a lot of sheep were killed, he talks about how when the oracles said to give Euenius whatever he wants to make amends for his eyes, the people of Appolonia deceived Euenius so he did not ask for too much. This story seems like a very negative story to me.
ReplyDeleteThe second story I am going to comment on was around page 600 when talking about Xerxes and Masistes. Masistes won't leave his wife to marry someone else so that might be considered good, however, in doing so Xerxes now is going to kill him. Herodotus notes how soldiers mutilated Masistes' wife and also killed Masistes himself. Beings that he noted the mutilation of the wife, I would think that this is a negative story as well.
I think that Herodotus does focus a lot on the negative side of things, however, he also include quite a bit of good things as well.
On page 562, Herodotus talks about the killing of Masisttius and the fight over his body. I've noticed this a lot in Homer and now it is also in Herodotus. It seems, to me, to be a terrible predicament that you have have to fight over a leaders body during a battle; all while saving your own.It is hard for me to believe that people fought over a corpse like this.
ReplyDeleteAnother story, from book one, on page 67, relates the story of the loss of Smyrna. A small band of men from Colophon took over the city during a feast and would not allow the peoples who lived there back in. The people who used to live there were forced to relocate to other cities with only the possessions they could move. It is another terrible relation of a story that seems to dwell on the intensely negative aspects of Greek life.
I think that Herodotus balances the good and the bad fairly well; but when you're writing a story about a war it's hard not to focus on the bad. The whole point of much of this story is to prove that war does nothing good for anyone. Focusing on the negative seems to be a good tactic for explaining the WHY of this point.
I believe its true that Herodotus does dwell on the negatives, but I don't think that he has any other choice in the manner. I mean hes writing a history about the Persian War, and I don't think there is going to be much for positive thoughts.
ReplyDeleteOne example of Herodotus negative words is when he tells the story of Xerxes pursuit of his brothers wife, and then the pursuit of his brothers daughter. This story is very negative, but needed because it shows the kind of life that will be lived under a tyrant.
Another example is on page 562 when Herodotus is describing events in battle, and tells of the Greeks paraded Masistius body along their lines. This is a horrible image to picture, but it is very neccessary because it is a true depiction of war at these times.
When it comes to history it can not be sugarcoated, and if that means having a very negative story than so be it.