.jpg)
Christians and Jews turn to the Bible as a source of comfort in difficult circumstances: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil." Does Homer offer any similar consolation? Are there key lines here showing how one can/should face loss, fear, death, and destruction?
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
Iliad IV (extra credit)
Christians and Jews turn to the Bible as a source of comfort in difficult circumstances: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil." Does Homer offer any similar consolation? Are there key lines here showing how one can/should face loss, fear, death, and destruction?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Annie Merkel
ReplyDeleteI think that Homer definately does offer some type of consolation. It may not be as clear and obvious as the Bible, but it is there. When dealing with death, Homer writes how the Trojans deal with Hector's death. I think something to keep in mind is that people need to mourn a death - that's what Homer describes. Allowing everyone, not just the faimly but the whole community, to grieve about the death of one of their own is important in order to move on with life.
Sam Merkel
ReplyDeleteI agree with Annie, I think that Homer does give advice in the Iliad. Like when Achilles holds some competitive games at his friends funeral service. For me that means that do not dwell on the sad times but enjoy life. It seems that they are celebrating the death by holding the sport games.
i think homer definitly writes good things about those in the book who face their death or a hero from the greeks or trojans and do it with courage rather then run away, even if the person knows they don't stand a chance and they stand up to fight, characters always have good things to say how brave that man was and how he will be remembered.
ReplyDeleteI think he's trying to say face everything with courage and hit it head on, but also with calm mind not like some people who charge head first cause they are mad and die.
I think that homers writings can be used as a bible. He has some very good life lessons the illiad. He talks about how you can deal with death like when Achilles lost his friend and still gave back hectors dead body. He also talks about how we can not let our anger get the best of us and make irrational decisions.
ReplyDeleteJon Evenson
Kirsten Saunders
ReplyDeleteA clear moment of consolation and peace in The Iliad, is demonstrated in Book 24 when Achilles and Hector, both grieved men, confront eachother and grieve together. There is an incredible amount of solace among tragedy that seems to present both men in their weakest moments, an almost refreshing moment in The Iliad. Additionally, Achilles shows his reverance for the elder Hector and compliments his courage. This illustrates how healthy grieving can be, but also how incredibly overwhelming losing a loved one is.
I think that Homer does show some hope to the Greeks about death as they read this story. When Priam came to ask for Hector's body there are a few points where Homer refers to something after death. While Hermes is talking to Priam he says "...he lies there fresh as dew, the blood washed away, and no sign of corruption. All his wounds sealed shut, wherever they struck...Such pains the blissful gods are lavishing on your son, dead man though he is--the gods love him dearly!" With this quote Homer is telling the Greeks that even after death the gods still take care of a brave and noble man. And the fact that he uses present tense when he says "the gods love him dearly" shows that there is obviously something after death.
ReplyDeleteAnd after he hears this Priam says "Never once in his halls did he forget the gods who hold Olympus, never, so now they remember him...if only after death." This is another passage that will show the Greeks that there is something after death, and it also tells them how to live their lives in order to achieve something great after they die. If they honor the gods in life the gods will honor them in death.
John Rawerts
Ruth Wilson
ReplyDeleteI personaly find it refreshing that all these heros know they will die before the end of this war and are yet still fighting it bravely. As Kieth mentioned, even their personal enemies had good things to say about the fallen. Not only do they meet these deaths with courage, but they seemed to even rush to their fortold demises. If all Americans lived to this ideal, I dont think there would be so much desention about any wars or police actions that our government may enter into.
I'd agree that he shows how to deal with death. You must honor their life, such as Achilles holding the games. Death is just part of the inescapable circle of life that we all are apart of. Why should death be treated as any other major milestone in our lives? When I leave this earth I would much rather go out with a party, my final party, than a standard funeral. We only live once and we only die once, so you better make it count. Achilles definitely made Patroclus' death a memorable event for all there.
ReplyDeleteKevin Nakajima
ReplyDeleteAchilles is one of the biggest, if not the vainest, heros there. He is constantly dealing with death, not by running away from it, but by running to it. He does this because he wants to be remembered for all eternity. So I think one of the biggest lessons it has to teach is don't be afraid of death, as long as you have lived a life worth remembering.
"Hector, dearest by far of all my children,
ReplyDeleteloved by the gods, as well, when you were living.Now, at your death, they still take care of you.
When swift Achilles took my other sons,
he'd ship them off across the boundless seas,
to Samos, or Imbros, or foggy Lemnos.
When his long-edged bronze took away your life,
he dragged you many times around the mound
for his comrade Patroclus, whom you killed. Yet even so, he could not revive him."
This I felt was a great look at what death meant to the Greek and Trojan people, like those in the bible there is sorrow at the loss of a loved one. However, like it says they do believe that the gods will take care of them in death. Death is a shared universal experience one cannot stop it from coming or reverse it after it occurs, it is permanant. But if you believe in and respect the gods one should not fear death, but embrace new life with the gods.
Zach Anderson
Homer does offer a bit of advice here. What we can learn is that both men, Priam and Achilles faced death. Achilles lost a dear friend in Patroclus, and in his rage he killed many Trojans and the mighty Hector. But when that was done, Achilles still needed some consolation. Then there is Priam who comes and asks for his dead son back from Achilles. Priam chooses to confront his enemy submissively, rather than aggressively. So as for us...we can deal with death in one of two ways: aggressively killing those who killed your loved one, or submissively confronting those guilty in the aim of getting them to understand what they have done. Which would you rather choose?
ReplyDeleteDoran Stucky
It seems to me that the consolation in death that Homer offers is the fact that you can honor and remember the great things that your loved ones have done in their life. In doing this you know that the time they had with their life was not wasted, and in turn will help you eventually move on. This is seen perfectly in the last few pages of the Iliad, when they are holding a funeral for Hector. Everyone he loves is saying their last words to him and all of them mention at least one of his amazing attributes or accomplishments in life.
ReplyDeleteHomer does write things that run parallel to the bible, but in many ways he is lacking. The polytheistic view has many holes in it. Having quarreling gods that are less honorable than the humans they created is too strange to grasp. Homer, himself, appreciates good characteristics in people such as honor and courage, but those things don’t do much for the people who posses those qualities. If one of the gods wants you dead, there isn’t much you can do. Believing in a god that is so inconsistent and fallible wouldn’t do anything for me. As Christians, we weigh ourselves against perfection to be constantly striding forward to reach the ultimate goal. If you only have to be as good as Zeus or any other god to get to heaven, then there isn’t much to worry. Most people would be overachieving.
ReplyDelete-Matt Peterson
Peter Ryman
ReplyDeleteI haven't read any of the posts yet so I could formulate my own opinion about the question(s). So...Number 1: Does Homer offer any similar consolation in difficult circumstances like the Bible does...
Alright. Hmm...Well...let me read what others wrote; may be I missed something.
Huh. I wish I could go and comment on each person's blog...there's a whole lot to say!
{Well said Matt.}
...Let me just start here by saying that life after death for the people in this story is at best, VAGUE. I remember there was a line that said, "He went down to the house of Death" or something like that. It was Paris or somebody they were talking about, and they said it was better to be a slave when your alive or something than to be a master of a thousand dead people there in the house of death or hades?? Whatever it said. There's no hope for these people in the Iliad after they die! At least it isn't Sure! You can't say with certainty that there is hope for these people after death, John. But God makes it unquestionably clear what's going to happen to people after they die.
Now as far as facing death, destruction, fear, or loss, Homer gives a few opinions on what to do. But since there's no hope any way, he really didn't need to give any advice; it was pointless. It's hard to draw parallels between Homer and the Bible because of their differing conclusions of life after death, and even life in life. But if I were to make an obscure comparison, I would say like Homer, God says that we should mourn with those who mourn and rejoice with those who rejoice. Jesus wept with his friends at the death of Lazarus, so it is very appropriate to mourn the death of some one you have loved. But UNLIKE Homer, God also says that if the person who died loved him and believed in his Son Jesus, then they should be comforted in knowing the fact that their loved one is present with the Lord in paradise. (You shouldn't be comforted BY a party at their death...Amazing)
Let me say this: Homer showed how you should face loss, fear, destruction, death, and the like; but honestly? You can only face everything with courage and hit it head on so much, Keith. And you can only have a mind of peace for so long. We ALL seem to possess a breaking point; and when we reach that... it's the reason why one contemplates and even commits suicide. But God said, "Come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." He said, "I have come so that you might have life, and have it to the full." He said, "Whoever believes in me will never perish, but will have eternal life." He said, "Peace I leave with you. My peace I give you." He said, "Why will you die oh house of Israel? I take no pleasure in the death of any one! Repent and live!!" He said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." What is it that offends God? Sin,,, Why does God say that all have sinned and have fallen short? because we ALL HAVE. We ALL have a sinful nature! An inexplainable desire to incline towards doing evil! But God said these things not to condemn us, but so we would believe... and know. Our hearts are relentless; they will not let go. But we've got to let go; we've got to give up sinning.
...How can one say that since there's no hope after death, you might as well party it up! "Make it count," Nik? ...Shouldn't you rather be filled with utter despair, knowing that all you do--every pleasure satisfied and every activity enjoyed--it's all for nothing? Shouldn't you then come to your senses and actually THINK-- about it? This is where I believe so many people have failed and have stopped short of knowing God, and realizing that HE IS REAL. And what he said in the Bible is TRUTH. And that he's coming to make things right once and for all. BE REAL WITH GOD!!!
...
I chose a few lines from Book 9 when Odysseus and Ajax come to Achilles to persuade him to come back to fighting with the rest of the Achaean men.
ReplyDelete“If I hold out here and I lay siege to Troy,
My journey home is gone, but my glory never dies.
If I voyage back to the fatherland I love,
My pride, my glory dies...
True, but the life that’s left me will be long,
The stroke of death will not come on me quickly”
The whole of the Iliad is filled with the juxtaposition of immortal next to mortal. The Gods, while having eternal life, are petty and cruel to both the Greeks and each other. Sometimes this is to the point of immaturity. We are never given a GOOD reason this war is even being fought (Mostly on the part of Hera and Athena). Most of their situations are very tragic – Zeus must deal with Hera on a daily basis and Thetis is manically depressed watching Achilles rage and his father die. They are all one dimensional characters who we assume have not ever nor will ever change in their ways.
The Greeks, on the other hand, are mortal and must deal with this in the best way they know. They try and find honor, to live forever not in the physical world but the lyrical and mythical one. All of the heroes of the story have their legend, their rise and fall, no matter how just, pious, famous, strong or intelligent they are. The story is centered on Achilles, who knows his physical life will be short if he fights for glory, or his name could live on to inspire thousands in a future he will never know. He has to make a decision on whether or not he should sail home and find happiness in mortal life or pursue something “higher.”
I think that the point Homer was trying to make is that life which is eternal is not worth living, because you will never have to think about consequences, you will never think about others, and you will always be overcome with a sense of megalomania. The world could never be practical if we were all to live forever. The best we can do is live a life which other people will look to as a model for the living of their own.
I don't think that the Illiad is really that good of a book to take advice from. There are certain stories that could give some good advice like when achilles gave hector back to priam it showed that you should have respect and honor for the dead but for the most part there is no character that you should try to live your everyday life by.
ReplyDeleteJon evenson